Talk:Gohan
i love gohan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!he is j.u.s.t so good!!!!!!!!.smh 17:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Whoever's saying that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku... Stop making edits about Ultimate Gohan being stronger than SSJ3 Goku; we can't be so sure. Gotenks, yes, but not Goku. Hyper Zergling 22:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC) Yes. I agree with you regarding this matter. Goku isn't surpassed by all characters. Dekoshu talk 22:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC) ThanksHyper Zergling 04:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC) :Gohan was indeed stronger than SS3 Goku. Though this was somewhat obscured in the English anime, the original wording in the manga makes it pretty plain. AurochSpirit assembled a fairly concise compilation of the relevant information on YT a while back. (Make sure and read the manga scans in the video description, as they're even more telling than the video.) -- 09:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Oh my god. How many times do we have to go over this? We don't have any proof, and in the manga, none of it is stated. As a matter of fact, the manga leans more towards SSJ3 Goku being stronger. Hyper Zergling 00:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC) :What do you mean "how many times"? This is the first time this material has been brought forth. And if you'll review it, I think you'll agree that it's rather compelling. (Especially if you read the manga scans in the video description.) If you have some material from the manga that contradicts this, by all means note it here. -- 12:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC) First off, I didn't even edit it stating that SSJ3 Goku is stronger. Second, no one has absolute proof that Ultimate Gohan is stronger, unless it was quoted by Akira Toriyama himself. And I gave an example a while ago, and this is like the fifth time saying this: When Goku went SSJ3, Gohan felt his power from the Kai planet. When Gohan unleashed his energy on the Kai planet, no one on Earth felt his energy until he came back. Hyper Zergling 03:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC) It's very hard to determine the facts between Super Saiyan 3 Goku being weaker or stronger than Ultimate Gohan.Dekoshu talk 03:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC) Also, it may or may not be concise that Goku is easily surpassed by Ultimate Gohan. If he is truly stronger than SS3 Goku, then why can't be able to defeat Kid Buu or Super Buu completely? Dekoshu talk 03:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC) :Nothing can usually be supported by a quote from Toriyama himself. What I mean is that the facts of the series haven't been established because someone has interviewed Toriyama and personally asked him to confirm certain things. The facts have been established by the story Toriyama wrote, and alternatively Toei's anime adaptation. The manga really does seem to imply that (Ultimate) Gohan can defeat Buu without the need to fuse with Goku. Even in the anime Goku acknowledges that he and Vegeta are no match for a weakened form of the same Buu that Gohan toyed with in battle. It's all in the link Nonoitall provided... I'll agree it doesn't make anything 100% but at the same time it doesn't mean you should completely debunk the possibility when there are several implications that suggest Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku at Super Saiyan 3. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 04:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC) That is pretty understandable, Vixen. Not everyone always disagree though. Dekoshu talk 04:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC) I apologize if the statement was rather presumptous and patronizing, but Gohan is a Half-Saiyan, and in his "Ultimate form", he may have great power, but he was killed by Kid Buu. It's such a shame, but Goku did destroy Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb, but the topic is that is SS3 Goku weaker or stronger than Gohan? Why and how? Dekoshu talk 04:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC) :Note: Below comment tweaked twice by Vixen Windstorm for accuracy (see bracketed italic text). :@Hyper Zergling: Like Storm said, there's very little on this wiki that can be supported directly by a Toriyama quote. If you want to adjust the wording so that it's more clear just how the assertion is derived, I have no objections. Admittedly, it's never directly stated that Ultimate Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku. AFAIK it was never directly stated that SS3 Goku was stronger than Gohan either, but given the evidence in the series, it seems like a reasonable conclusion. And if you'll read the material that I linked, you'll find that your claim about no one feeling Gohan's energy from Earth is incorrect. (See question #11 in the video description.) :@Dekoshu: (1) Why didn't Gohan destroy Super Buu completely? Because he never finished fighting him. Super Buu saw that he was outmatched and self-destructed. Gohan fled the scene with Goten and Trunks, and by the time the dust settled, Buu was nowhere to be found. When they discovered him again, Gohan was about to resume fighting him, but Buu tricked them into letting Goten and Trunks fuse again. Buu then absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo, making him stronger than Ultimate Gohan or SS3 Goku. (2) Why didn't Gohan destroy Kid Buu completely? He never fought him. (3) Why was Kid Buu able to kill Gohan, while being beaten by Goku? Gohan was unconscious and Kid Buu destroyed the planet he was on. -- 11:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC) I appreciate your explanation, Nonoitall, but I'm not a newb. I know already what exactly happened with Gohan and the others before. But an explanation isn't so bad, so thank you. Dekoshu talk 17:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC) Alright, nonoitall. If Ultimate Gohan was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, Akira Toriyama would've had him fight Kid Buu in the end. But then you would counteract with, "What about Vegito?" The Potara earrings were supposed to create permanent fusions. Toriyama obviously needed an excuse to split him. Hyper Zergling 02:01, 15 January 2009 (UTC) umm im going to agree with hyperzergling on this one.Both me and my brother have been watching the series ever since it aired on cartoonnetwork. There is no proof that ultimate gohan is stronger then SSJ3 goku,but i personaly think that goku is strongerLink67125 02:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)link67125 :Hyper Zergling: I counteract with this: Why question Toriyama when he wrote the series the way he did? The series is his creation and thus he could decide who the combatants of battles come down to. He didn't have to brand the final battle with taking place between Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan simply because (let's just say for this example) Gohan was stronger than Goku. Don't forget that there was a time when the series was ongoing, and ongoing series aren't usually done for the sake of what fanbases will say in retrospect, but to keep the interest and appeal of current readers and viewers. There were no wikis and massive databases 20 years ago for the series, and when it was in its original production run, many of us were either playing with plastic blocks, still in diapers or not even born, so by the time we were finally exposed to the series, the (primitive, except to current young fans) internet was able to help shape our conceptions of the series. The point is that this isn't something Japan had during the series' original run, so all they had to support their ideas of the series were the implications made in the manga and anime. Well the same rules apply here; if it isn't outright stated but is at least outright implied, then it doesn't matter if the plot came to pass that Gohan was killed while incapacitated, it is still alluded to that in his prime Gohan could outclass Buu. :Link67125: The series existed before Cartoon Network began airing the dub, but ironically even in the dub Goku still implies he's no match for Super Buu. The manga (basically the highest level of canon) makes the implication as well, but the fact that even the anime dub supports it only solidifies the theory. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 05:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Goku never said he was no match for Super Buu (without anyone absorbed). And kid Buu is stronger than super Buu (without anyone absorbed). How? Because Fat Buu's "kindness" stopped super Buu from using his full power, and kid Buu had no inhibition. Yes, super Buu was potentially stronger, but fat Buu held him back. And all the major enemies were killed by the strongest hero at the time, excluding fusions. Hyper Zergling 17:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC) is he????please give me comments!smh 17:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC) :All I'm saying is that what's directly implied in the highest level of canon, and supported by the anime adaptation, outweighs any amount of original research made by a fan, unless there's reasonable doubt that can be assumed because of retroactive continuity (retcon) or a blatant inconsistency. Of course, it's difficult to verify something that is only implied, but Goku makes it pretty clear that he and Gohan don't need to fuse since Gohan has the power to defeat Buu alone, and while inside a form of Super Buu weaker than the one Gohan battles, Goku makes it pretty clear that taking on Buu in current circumstances would mean death for both he and Vegeta. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 18:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC) [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 18:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC)